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Diversity On Oltl discussion about diverse characters in daytime and OLTL

#31 DishGuest_*

  • Group: Guests

Posted 04 July 2010 - 08:00 PM

View PostGuest, on 04 July 2010 - 06:01 PM, said:

View PostGuest, on 04 July 2010 - 05:05 PM, said:

View PostGuest, on 04 July 2010 - 04:45 PM, said:

View PostGuest, on 04 July 2010 - 04:40 PM, said:

Enjoy freaks!


I'm convinced that White people can't intelligently talk about race and that's sad. It's the lack of diversity that's killing this show and people refuse to see it. You can't have a conversation about race if you refuse to hear the other person's point of view. If you're White and you say it isn't racist, how do you know?


Sorry, but the Ollies and the JohnEva4Evah's and the Eleglances are just as guilty. They pronounce that killing off Evangeline was racist and ignore that REG chose not to accept tptb contract offer. For whatever reason, she and tptb couldn't reach agreement. It wasn't that they didn't want to keep her and chose to push her out. They ignore that other performers who were popular as well were simply let go and not even given the consideration of an offer to reject.

Natalie was trashed to elevate Evangeline as was Blair and yet they whine that Evangeline didn't win. But she certainly didn't lose. She was written to maintain her dignity.

There can be no honest discussion about racism and diversity if either side refuses to remain open minded and sincerely try to understand the opposing viewpoint. Doesn't mean they have to embrace it. They just need to make a sincere attempt not to discount any opinion that differs from their own as ignorant or bigoted. I believe if we maintain an open honest dialogue without trying to minimize opinions in contrast to our own we can all gain better understanding.



The white writers never elevated Van. They made sure the white viewers understood that they considered Van a second class citizen when they had John save Natalie first during the fire and always put her safety above his relationship with Van and they basically made Van a modern day mammy to the blonde haired blue eyed town rapist to the detriment of her backburner story with Cris.
I will say that these writers have no respect for white women either. I don't know, maybe they tell focus groups that they like sleaze and misoginy. So I can't ever expect anything better for people of color.


Are you honestly saying that Evangeline was treated worse in the writing than Natalie, or Blair or now Kelly?

#32 DishGuest_*

  • Group: Guests

Posted 04 July 2010 - 08:04 PM

View PostGuest, on 04 July 2010 - 06:32 PM, said:

View PostGuest, on 04 July 2010 - 05:05 PM, said:

View PostGuest, on 04 July 2010 - 04:45 PM, said:

View PostGuest, on 04 July 2010 - 04:40 PM, said:

Enjoy freaks!


I'm convinced that White people can't intelligently talk about race and that's sad. It's the lack of diversity that's killing this show and people refuse to see it. You can't have a conversation about race if you refuse to hear the other person's point of view. If you're White and you say it isn't racist, how do you know?


Sorry, but the Ollies and the JohnEva4Evah's and the Eleglances are just as guilty. They pronounce that killing off Evangeline was racist and ignore that REG chose not to accept tptb contract offer. For whatever reason, she and tptb couldn't reach agreement. It wasn't that they didn't want to keep her and chose to push her out. They ignore that other performers who were popular as well were simply let go and not even given the consideration of an offer to reject.

Natalie was trashed to elevate Evangeline as was Blair and yet they whine that Evangeline didn't win. But she certainly didn't lose. She was written to maintain her dignity.

There can be no honest discussion about racism and diversity if either side refuses to remain open minded and sincerely try to understand the opposing viewpoint. Doesn't mean they have to embrace it. They just need to make a sincere attempt not to discount any opinion that differs from their own as ignorant or bigoted. I believe if we maintain an open honest dialogue without trying to minimize opinions in contrast to our own we can all gain better understanding.


I would love for those of you who say the claims of racism are false explain why this show has no Black vets, and Blacks have been on this show since the beginning. There's has to be a reason why.


Did you not read the post above yours? No one is saying that claims of racism are false. The poster was merely saying that no intelligent discussion can take place if neither side is willing to consider alternative views. Bottom-line? REG was treated no worse than Forbes Marche, or Scott Clifton, or John Brotherton and some would argue she was treated far better, both in terms of her contract negotiations and the writing for her character. How can you explain that?

#33 DishGuest_*

  • Group: Guests

Posted 04 July 2010 - 08:04 PM

View PostGuest, on 04 July 2010 - 05:55 PM, said:

First things first, if you're going to talk about racism and OLTL have an understanding of what the word racism and racist means. Renee Goldsberry told fans that the show didn't negotiate with her, and so did Trevor St. John. If you negotiate with other actors but not with her, what conclusions can we make.


Quote

Two words for you, Genie Francis! What does it say when you bend over backwards to accomodate Tony Geary, offer him countless perks and vacations, yet shit all over the female half of the most famous couple of all, and then refuse to negotiate with her. What conclusions can we make?

ABC Daytime is a sexist organization from top to bottom, always has been and that's the real problem REG faced. Institutional SEXISM not racism. Until you admit other lily white blond females with far more star power been shit on by ABCD, you look like utter fools.

:goodjob: :goodjob:

Bravo! Look no further than treatment of six time Emmy winner ES with biggest fanbase of all. She's taken a backseat to male airhogs and leads for years.

#34 DishGuest_*

  • Group: Guests

Posted 04 July 2010 - 08:05 PM

View PostGuest, on 04 July 2010 - 06:39 PM, said:

View PostGuest, on 04 July 2010 - 06:01 PM, said:

Okay then Let's talk about how the black males have been treated. Let's talk about TDS.

Sexism is a definite problem at ABCD but that doesn't mean racism doesn't exist there as well.


TDS was a victim of another one of OLTL's established patterns when it comes to Blacks. His character was sacrificed for Vincent Jones, because the show can't have two unrelated Black males on contract at the same time. Black males have been treated better than Black females, TDS did have a renewed contract whereas TS is the first woman of color in 20 years to have one.



TDS was sacrificed for Jovan. RJ was written to be rejected by Evangeline, then they wrote him to stalk her to justify her cheating on him.

#35 DishGuest_*

  • Group: Guests

Posted 04 July 2010 - 08:11 PM

View PostGuest, on 04 July 2010 - 07:51 PM, said:

View PostGuest, on 04 July 2010 - 07:38 PM, said:

View PostGuest, on 04 July 2010 - 06:39 PM, said:

View PostGuest, on 04 July 2010 - 06:01 PM, said:

Okay then Let's talk about how the black males have been treated. Let's talk about TDS.

Sexism is a definite problem at ABCD but that doesn't mean racism doesn't exist there as well.


TDS was a victim of another one of OLTL's established patterns when it comes to Blacks. His character was sacrificed for Vincent Jones, because the show can't have two unrelated Black males on contract at the same time. Black males have been treated better than Black females, TDS did have a renewed contract whereas TS is the first woman of color in 20 years to have one.



TDS is no victim. He's doing quite well and doesn't need a second rate soap opera to make a living.



It might be better than just a second rate show if they didn't get rid of talented, accomplished people like him.



Maybe he left on his own as did REG. Of course, it doesn't fit the conspiracy theorists who want to make all black people victims.

#36 DishGuest_*

  • Group: Guests

Posted 04 July 2010 - 08:13 PM

View PostGuest, on 04 July 2010 - 08:11 PM, said:

View PostGuest, on 04 July 2010 - 07:51 PM, said:

View PostGuest, on 04 July 2010 - 07:38 PM, said:

View PostGuest, on 04 July 2010 - 06:39 PM, said:

View PostGuest, on 04 July 2010 - 06:01 PM, said:

Okay then Let's talk about how the black males have been treated. Let's talk about TDS.

Sexism is a definite problem at ABCD but that doesn't mean racism doesn't exist there as well.


TDS was a victim of another one of OLTL's established patterns when it comes to Blacks. His character was sacrificed for Vincent Jones, because the show can't have two unrelated Black males on contract at the same time. Black males have been treated better than Black females, TDS did have a renewed contract whereas TS is the first woman of color in 20 years to have one.



TDS is no victim. He's doing quite well and doesn't need a second rate soap opera to make a living.



It might be better than just a second rate show if they didn't get rid of talented, accomplished people like him.



Maybe he left on his own as did REG. Of course, it doesn't fit the conspiracy theorists who want to make all black people victims.

You can't use him to make your point if you don't know the circumstances.

#37 DishGuest_*

  • Group: Guests

Posted 04 July 2010 - 08:24 PM

Is there a lack of diversity in Daytime especially ABC? YES.

IS REG the poster girl for it? NO She was treated far better than many actors and actresses of various racial make up.

Is it insulting to people who are actually victims of racism to pull the racist card because your girl didn't the truly not worth all the arguing leading man? TOTALLY.

But it is the weekend, Evangeline is being killed off and yet no one seems to be embracing the fact that this will be good material for TIKA the AA female who is still on the show and give her a chance to shine. It is easy to question the motivations of certain factions.

and honestly posting that white people can't speak intelligently about racism is in fact racist.

#38 DishGuest_*

  • Group: Guests

Posted 04 July 2010 - 08:57 PM

View PostGuest, on 04 July 2010 - 08:24 PM, said:

Is there a lack of diversity in Daytime especially ABC? YES.

IS REG the poster girl for it? NO She was treated far better than many actors and actresses of various racial make up.

Is it insulting to people who are actually victims of racism to pull the racist card because your girl didn't the truly not worth all the arguing leading man? TOTALLY.

But it is the weekend, Evangeline is being killed off and yet no one seems to be embracing the fact that this will be good material for TIKA the AA female who is still on the show and give her a chance to shine. It is easy to question the motivations of certain factions.

and honestly posting that white people can't speak intelligently about racism is in fact racist.



STFU Trudi! LOL!

#39 DishGuest_*

  • Group: Guests

Posted 04 July 2010 - 09:01 PM

Diverstiy is lacking in tv period. There aren't any shows with diverse, multicultural casts anymore. Diversity on OLTL ended in 1998.

#40 DishGuest_*

  • Group: Guests

Posted 04 July 2010 - 09:03 PM

View PostGuest, on 04 July 2010 - 08:24 PM, said:

Is there a lack of diversity in Daytime especially ABC? YES.

IS REG the poster girl for it? NO She was treated far better than many actors and actresses of various racial make up.

Is it insulting to people who are actually victims of racism to pull the racist card because your girl didn't the truly not worth all the arguing leading man? TOTALLY.

But it is the weekend, Evangeline is being killed off and yet no one seems to be embracing the fact that this will be good material for TIKA the AA female who is still on the show and give her a chance to shine. It is easy to question the motivations of certain factions.

and honestly posting that white people can't speak intelligently about racism is in fact racist.

That's not racist. It's someone just trying to get a rise out of you which worked.

#41 DishGuest_*

  • Group: Guests

Posted 04 July 2010 - 09:12 PM

Unless a character is male, white and stacked with pecs, they get no respect. All the nonwhite characters are backburnered or in C level stories at best. The misogyny is rampant- victimized weak women who can strip and bang the romance novel "powerful" men. That's what it's all about. Sad but definitely leading to the demise of soaps. Prime time soaps on ABC do much better. They get that viewers are tired of the same old stereotyping.

#42 DishGuest_*

  • Group: Guests

Posted 04 July 2010 - 09:14 PM

View PostGuest, on 04 July 2010 - 08:05 PM, said:

View PostGuest, on 04 July 2010 - 06:39 PM, said:

View PostGuest, on 04 July 2010 - 06:01 PM, said:

Okay then Let's talk about how the black males have been treated. Let's talk about TDS.

Sexism is a definite problem at ABCD but that doesn't mean racism doesn't exist there as well.


TDS was a victim of another one of OLTL's established patterns when it comes to Blacks. His character was sacrificed for Vincent Jones, because the show can't have two unrelated Black males on contract at the same time. Black males have been treated better than Black females, TDS did have a renewed contract whereas TS is the first woman of color in 20 years to have one.



TDS was sacrificed for Jovan. RJ was written to be rejected by Evangeline, then they wrote him to stalk her to justify her cheating on him.

TDS was sacrificed for white Bo. He had a completely off screen realtionship with the very white lindsay and was then promptly shown the door when the white PTB wanted to give the 'right' couple another shot.

#43 DishGuest_*

  • Group: Guests

Posted 04 July 2010 - 09:31 PM

View PostGuest, on 04 July 2010 - 09:12 PM, said:

Unless a character is male, white and stacked with pecs, they get no respect. All the nonwhite characters are backburnered or in C level stories at best. The misogyny is rampant- victimized weak women who can strip and bang the romance novel "powerful" men. That's what it's all about. Sad but definitely leading to the demise of soaps. Prime time soaps on ABC do much better. They get that viewers are tired of the same old stereotyping.

Hon, that type of misogynist writing extends way beyond soaps. It's the hidden messaging behind the new vamp crazy, too.

#44 DishGuest_*

  • Group: Guests

Posted 04 July 2010 - 09:35 PM

View PostGuest, on 04 July 2010 - 08:00 PM, said:

View PostGuest, on 04 July 2010 - 06:01 PM, said:

View PostGuest, on 04 July 2010 - 05:05 PM, said:

View PostGuest, on 04 July 2010 - 04:45 PM, said:

View PostGuest, on 04 July 2010 - 04:40 PM, said:

Enjoy freaks!


I'm convinced that White people can't intelligently talk about race and that's sad. It's the lack of diversity that's killing this show and people refuse to see it. You can't have a conversation about race if you refuse to hear the other person's point of view. If you're White and you say it isn't racist, how do you know?


Sorry, but the Ollies and the JohnEva4Evah's and the Eleglances are just as guilty. They pronounce that killing off Evangeline was racist and ignore that REG chose not to accept tptb contract offer. For whatever reason, she and tptb couldn't reach agreement. It wasn't that they didn't want to keep her and chose to push her out. They ignore that other performers who were popular as well were simply let go and not even given the consideration of an offer to reject.

Natalie was trashed to elevate Evangeline as was Blair and yet they whine that Evangeline didn't win. But she certainly didn't lose. She was written to maintain her dignity.

There can be no honest discussion about racism and diversity if either side refuses to remain open minded and sincerely try to understand the opposing viewpoint. Doesn't mean they have to embrace it. They just need to make a sincere attempt not to discount any opinion that differs from their own as ignorant or bigoted. I believe if we maintain an open honest dialogue without trying to minimize opinions in contrast to our own we can all gain better understanding.



The white writers never elevated Van. They made sure the white viewers understood that they considered Van a second class citizen when they had John save Natalie first during the fire and always put her safety above his relationship with Van and they basically made Van a modern day mammy to the blonde haired blue eyed town rapist to the detriment of her backburner story with Cris.
I will say that these writers have no respect for white women either. I don't know, maybe they tell focus groups that they like sleaze and misoginy. So I can't ever expect anything better for people of color.


Are you honestly saying that Evangeline was treated worse in the writing than Natalie, or Blair or now Kelly?


Many supporters asked for positive writing for Van. I personally am not interested in using my precious time watching Jerry Springer type plot point writing. I mentioned the writing for other characters in the highlighted portion.
I will add that many of the fans of Natalie and Blair posted on many boards that they love the way they are/were written. Boasted that it was soapy, soap 101, entertaining, that these characters 'owned their shit', they should go after what they want no matter what, etc. All the while they were being written like needy, pathetic, man crazy lap dogs with no story focus on them. Middleaged Dorian couldn't even be written to gain control of BE because she was an astute business woman, it had to be to get back at Clint and Nora.

#45 DishGuest_*

  • Group: Guests

Posted 04 July 2010 - 09:53 PM

View PostGuest, on 04 July 2010 - 08:04 PM, said:

View PostGuest, on 04 July 2010 - 05:55 PM, said:

First things first, if you're going to talk about racism and OLTL have an understanding of what the word racism and racist means. Renee Goldsberry told fans that the show didn't negotiate with her, and so did Trevor St. John. If you negotiate with other actors but not with her, what conclusions can we make.


Quote

Two words for you, Genie Francis! What does it say when you bend over backwards to accomodate Tony Geary, offer him countless perks and vacations, yet shit all over the female half of the most famous couple of all, and then refuse to negotiate with her. What conclusions can we make?

ABC Daytime is a sexist organization from top to bottom, always has been and that's the real problem REG faced. Institutional SEXISM not racism. Until you admit other lily white blond females with far more star power been shit on by ABCD, you look like utter fools.

:goodjob: :goodjob:

Bravo! Look no further than treatment of six time Emmy winner ES with biggest fanbase of all. She's taken a backseat to male airhogs and leads for years.

This is astounding but not suprising. Poor GF, ES, RS, and countless other white women spent decades in some instances in front burner status are now back burned and still with a job because of sexism. Yet people of color who have never had the opportunity to be front burner or even in b level stories has nothing to do with racism and the show continues to be lily white both in cast and bts mgt. It would be laughable if it wasn't so pathetic and self serving. Those poor mistreated white folks.

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